Google translate
Google +1 button
Twitter button
Facebook button

Cable reference id: #09STATE11937

“All of them, those in power, and those who want the power, would pamper us, if we agreed to overlook their crookedness by wilfully restricting our activities.” — “Refus Global“, Paul-Émile Borduas

Hide header S E C R E T STATE 011937 NOFORN E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/05/2019 TAGS: OVIP [Visits and Travel of Prominent Individuals and Leaders] (CLINTON, HILLARY), PREL [External Political Relations], KPAL [Palestinian Affairs], FR [France; Corsica], IR [Iran], RS [Russia; Wrangel Islands], NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization], UK [United Kingdom], CN [Comoros] SUBJECT: (U) Secretary Clinton's February 5, 2009 expanded meeting with French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner CLASSIFIED BY EUR ASSISTANT SECRETARY MARCIE RIES, ACTING FOR REASONS 1.4 (D) ¶1. (S) SUMMARY: Secretary Clinton and French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner met on February 5 for 30 minutes in their first bilateral meeting. The warm and open exchange followed a one-on-one working lunch and preceded a 20-minute press conference. The two agreed to coordinate closely on a wide range of issues including the Middle East, Afghanistan, Iran, Russia, the Balkans, GTMO detainees and Africa, especially Darfur. On Afghanistan, Kouchner emphasized the need for greater "Afghanization" and international "access" to everyday Afghan people, and asked for U.S. support to hold a second "Neighbors" conference to follow up on the initial December 14, 2008 event. On GTMO, the FM indicated Europe would help on a case-by-case basis, and asked the U.S. for assistance with a 15-year old Canadian national, Omar Khadr. The FM asked for a reaction to its Transatlantic paper, passed to the U.S. during France's 2008 EU presidency. As the meeting closed, the Secretary joked that the FM was "not even in her league" concerning criticism when the FM mentioned a new book critical of him that might spark press questions. END SUMMARY. ----------- Middle East ----------- ¶2. (C) The Secretary opened the meeting by welcoming FM Kouchner and expressing appreciation for French leadership on a broad agenda of cooperation, which she said President Obama hoped to deepen. Kouchner congratulated the Secretary and said he looked forward to the pleasure of working together on a first name basis. The two then summarized topics discussed in their one-on-one meeting, beginning with the Middle East. ¶3. (S) The Secretary said she understood that the issue of the Middle East was of grave concern to France. She expressed appreciation for French leadership on interdicting weapons into Gaza and with the Copenhagen process. She thanked President Sarkozy for his ideas and for French work in providing assistance to the people of Gaza. FM Kouchner said that he had met with Palestinian Authority (PA) PM Abu Mazen three days prior and found him completely isolated. There was a game being played among Arabs, most of whom, Egyptians excepted, did not care. He said "Abbas is lost. You tried, we tried but nothing has happened. The key, he said, was to figure out how to build up Abu Mazen in a government of national unity. Salam Fayyad was a fantastic PM who had ideas about how to open the Gaza crossing, specifically a tax paid by a group of people who would be acceptable to both sides just to get the crossing operating." It was especially important, he continued, to offer the Palestinian people a sign that the crossing was open because of Abu Mazen's involvement. He had to be seen as a leader. He said it would take weeks and noted that Hamas does not want to talk to Mazen. Still, it was important to help convince the Israelis to open the crossing. Kouchner cautioned that it would be difficult to get anything done ahead of the Israeli election on February 10. ¶4. (S) The Secretary concurred that the situation was difficult. She added that confidence building measures were needed so that the Israelis would feel committed. It was important to persuade the new Israeli government to participate in the peace effort and be convinced that they could work with the PA. If Abu Mazen's government of national unity is to work, Israel needs to understand that it should work with him and that this development could help. She was encouraged by the actions that the Egyptians had taken against the tunnels. She said there was much to coordinate and supported the role of the Quartet, but agreed that little could happen in advance of the Israeli elections. She noted that the U.S. was conducting a review based on Mitchell's work. ----------- Afghanistan ----------- ¶5. (S) The Secretary said that the U.S. was working on a comprehensive strategy and thanked the FM for France's contributions and cooperation. Kouchner noted that France had increased its troops to 3000 from 3300. He said there was progress in several areas, including civil society, but presented a mixed picture overall. He returned several times to problems with access to the population and suggested that this was the key. He also promoted Afghanization, saying it was important "for the people to take their own problems into their own hands." He expressed pride in the French hospital in Kabul as an example of what was possible noting that Afghan patients were being treated by Afghan doctors, and even the Taliban presented themselves for treatment. He said that Kabul is not Afghanistan, but that Kabul works because it has been "Afghanized." The rest of the country needs the same, but it will take years. He was also concerned about growing Iranian influence, noting that a huge Shi'a mosque had recently been built with Iranian funds. ¶6. (C) FM Kouchner asked for the Secretary's support for a follow-up event to the December 14, 2008 "Afghanistan Neighbors conference" that Kouchner hosted in Paris. The FM said the meeting had been very interesting, despite the Iranians not showing at the last minute, and should be repeated if the U.S. agreed. Kouchner put the conference in the context of a broader approach, stressing "there is no military solution in Afghanistan." ¶7. (C) The Secretary took note of the proposal, but made no commitment on a follow-up conference. She said the U.S. believed that there had been some success with building the Army, but more problems with the police. Both commented on the strength of the new Minister of Interior. The Secretary said that the Minister of the Interior was an interesting person but that it might be necessary to deal with some of the more radical people whether we wanted to or not. On reconciliation, Kouchner said that there were some very bad people involved, but they were nationals of Afghanistan and it was important to start negotiations, including the negotiations in Saudi Arabia. Finally on the presidency, Kouchner said "Karzai is somebody. We have to talk to him, but there may be other candidates." He said Anwar-ul-Haq Ahadi was such a person but, while interesting, he probably couldn't win against Karzai. The Secretary noted that Richard Holbrooke would travel to the region. ----------- GUANTANAMO ----------- ¶8. (C) The Secretary expressed appreciation for French leadership within the EU on this issue. She said she was proud of President Obama's commitment to close the facility, calling it "a cancer" the U.S. wanted to take care of, but would take time. She said this was complicated, so we were asking friends and allies to consider taking some detainees. FM Kouchner said the EU 27 had not yet reached consensus, but that they "accepted the idea," but would consider detainees on a case-by-case basis; Europeans do not want to create legal problems for themselves. They were working with three categories of individuals. First were "the best cases." Second, were those who had made individual requests for resettlement in specific countries and third without legal problems. There were many outstanding questions, such as whether they had refugee status, but because of the Schengen visa requirements, it was necessary for the EU to address this together. At the end of this discussion, the FM handed the Secretary a paper concerning Omar Khadr, a 15-year old Muslim of Canadian origin. The Secretary agreed to review the case. ---- Iran ---- ¶9. (S/NF) The Secretary opened the discussion by alluding to the private conversation with FM Kouchner and their agreement that it was important to prevent further development of Iran's nuclear capabilities and its missile program. Iran's recent space launch complicated this effort noting that the Iranians had respected none of the internationally recognized requirements for a space launches specified in UN Security Council resolutions. The FM said he welcomed the U.S. willingness to consider direct talks between the U.S. and Iran. He said that the Iranians were waiting for the U.S. The launch had surprised the Russians, of whom he said "they are more affected than we being 2000 kilometers closer." He added that the sanctions seemed to be having some effect on the domestic population, but he ended by repeating the need for a Quartet meeting. He said that it was important for any approach to be done together with the Germans and the Russians, particularly since the Russians are closer to Iran and could be more easily targeted. Kouchner suggested not including the Chinese because the Chinese are "absolutely not useful" in this process. The Secretary said it was important to follow up, possibly with U.K. Foreign Secretary David Miliband on the margins of the G-20 Summit in London. --------------------- Russia/Georgia/Energy --------------------- ¶10. (C) FM Kouchner told the Secretary that France had been surprised by the Georgian invasion. "We did stop it, but we didn't solve it." He continued that the South Ossetians and Abkhaz are a "sort of independent people" but he worried that there is no humanitarian access to the population. He said that Georgian PM Saakashvili had been "badly inspired; he fell into the trap." But the FM said the Geneva process should continue, though it might take months or years. On energy, he said the EU had been united, but then Poland, Romania and others had been completely cut off and that both Russia and Ukraine had been "absolutely awful." He said "a group of Europeans were trying to secure a pipeline from one country to the other." But he cautioned that the U.S. position on Missile Defense was also a factor. He complimented Medvedev as "a normal guy, at least better than Putin," and credited him with what he believed to be the sound decision not to put Iskander missiles in Kalinigrad. He said things were now more complicated with the Iranian space launch. On the whole, things were frozen, which was "not bad" as a place to be for the moment. ¶11. (C) Continuing on Russia, Kouchner said that the main thing for the U.S. and Russia to begin to work together. "Let's talk to them," he said. He said that the Russians are "rough, rude, and brutal," but we should still engage them. Kouchner said Russian FM Lavrov was one of the most brutal, but was among the cleverest FMs. In any case, they were an important player and had to be included. ------- Balkans ------- ¶12. (C) FM Kouchner said that Bosnia remained a problem, but, it was important to simply "follow the road." It was important to push the Serbian government closer to the EU, though he conceded this was difficult due to Dutch and Belgian objections to the failure of the Serbs to hand over Ratko Mladic to ICTY. Presumably referring to EULEX, he said there was success on the ground in Kosovo as the two sides were not killing each other and concluded that things were not in a bad place for the moment. ------ Darfur ------ ¶13. (C) FM Kouchner told the Secretary he thought the International Criminal Court (ICC) would soon issue an arrest warrant against Sudanese President Omar al- Bashir. He complimented the Qataris for playing a useful role with their work in Doha. He said they were working with both sides, including the Islamists. He said it had taken two years to build toward success. EUFOR, a contingent of 17 nations deployed in Eastern Chad and northern Central African Republic, was a success and he expected a resolution before March 15 when EUFOR will hand over its responsibilities to the UN (MINURCAT II). On the humanitarian front, he estimated that half of the displaced persons in Eastern Chad, mainly women, would begin coming home in Darfur by March ¶15. ---------------------------- Book and Transatlantic Paper ---------------------------- ¶14. (SBU) As the meeting ended, the Secretary said there was a lot to digest and do. It would require cooperation. On a lighter note, FM Kouchner said that waiting journalists might raise the issue of "The World According to K," the expose published yesterday accusing him of enriching himself as a consultant in Africa, tarnishing his humanitarian image. The Secretary dismissed the book, saying "One book? I have 25. You're not even in my league!" He said that "the first one hurts a little more than the others." The FM asked the Secretary for US reaction to the Transatlantic paper passed to the U.S. during the French presidency. The Secretary said she would review the issue and respond. Note: EUR passed the paper to S staff on 2/5/09 and is preparing a response to the FM). End note. ¶15. (U) Participants in the Bilateral: United States The Secretary SCA - A/S Richard Boucher EUR - PDAS Marcie Ries NEA - DAS David Hale PA - Robert Wood EUR/WE - Pamela Spratlen (notetaker) NSC - Toby Bradley Interpreter France Foreign Minister Kouchner Ambassador Vimont Eric Chevallier, MFA Spokesperson Philippe Errera, MFA Counselor Emmanuelle Lenain, Embassy Spokesperson Aurelien Lechevallier, Notetaker Interpreter CLINTON